This was refreshing to read. Yes, I think there's a difference between "fawning" and this loss of self you talk about. The way I see it is as if the loss of self is broader it plays in pretty much all aspects of our lives and is shaped by society, culture, family. Fawning feels more localised for me. Thanks for sharing your experience and writing about it. It sure gives me prompts for thinking about my own experience as well. 🙂
Maitte! So lovely to see you here. This description of fawning as being a more localized behavior fits for me, too. I also think fawning is specifically about appeasement whereas the loss of self is a broader "shaping" -- part of which relates to appeasement, but as you mentioned it also has roots in the great web of social norms and expectations. There's a lot of nuance and gray area here, not really a clean delineation.
This really resonated with me - I just wrote about "fawning" and to answer your question - "I don’t know if you can unlearn the watching, the masking, the adaptation" - I know you know - yes, yes we can - its a hell of a lot of work - and you lose yourself - or the self you thought you were - once again. But honestly, its liberating - the fear felt is just the nervous system saying hey, we don't do it like that - are you sure - and yes, yes we are. A brilliant article! Thank you.
Interesting. I guess fawning is a component of this, but I think it’s broader than simple appeasement. There’s the skill of watching to see which parts of yourself are welcome in a given space, the hiding of edges that are too sharp for a room, the cultural constructs that shape the way we—literally and metaphorically—walk through life. These are plastic, for sure, and can be changed. But do they ever disappear entirely? And would we want them to? That’s the question I’m sitting inside.
Thanks for your response. You’ve given me some more to think about.
This is so thought provoking! I felt like I was reading my life story. In three years, I will be 70. I have found that my senior citizen status has helped me to become who I really am without hiding or holding back. In a trade off with aches and pains, I have become me with no apologies. It was exhausting to lose myself for so many years. Sukie, you are an absolute jewel of a person. Thank you for your intelligent insights and for all you bring to the world.
Felt like you were reading my mail... much to chew on here. There's a central question here for me, something about being the truest, least self-conscious expression of me, while allowing blending/ fitting in to flow with visible/noticeable- moving from one to the other with ease... chewing...
We are a lot alike. Made to accommodate. Surviving, people pleasing. My lot is having been born the second half of a set of twin boys, left handed, a little smaller than the other, etc, etc. Thought outside the box, when in the late 50s and early 60s the only thing that was important was the box. So I stayed inside my world. I ventured out when necessary. Went to school, aced IQ exams, was mediocre in school work (too much left brain stuff), but went on to college. Learned to make friends with dopers and thugs so I wouldn't get beaten up. Made it through the army as an Intel analyst then worked as an addictions counselor for 40 years. Became adjusted to structure to fit into society and worked hard on fitting myself in without losing myself. Lots of bumps along the way. Still the iconoclast. Still think I'm right. Still learning when to keep my mouth shut or to say please and thank you. Still helping the poor and afflicted along the way. My motto to get along with people who don't like me is "To know me is to love me."
Hi David. That sounds like quite an impactful experience, and to grow up in that family dynamic during a cultural time of great conformity--I imagine that was challenging. It sounds like you navigated life extremely well despite those circumstances, however. Thank you for the good work you do in the world. Your patients are lucky to have had your care.
Reading this was as if I were reading my own autobiography. Thank you, Sukie, for articulating this path so clearly.
I only recently began (in my mid-60s to 70s!) fully recognizing the masked me I'd always been vs the real Me I'd always felt within. The Performance. The Masks I wore most of the time. The external reasons for my perfectionism, my work to be a high achiever, the constant efforting to fit in while wanting/needing be fully authentic. It was only when I retired from work (ie from expectations and obligations) that I allowed myself to begin opening up, to enjoy that there's no longer anybody else who's "the boss of me". It's like breaking out of a lifelong cocoon to become the butterfly within. It's not easy at first, and then it becomes exponentially easier after the wings start to spread wide open.
So yes, I'd say "you can unlearn the watching, the masking, the adaptation" and what's more, you can retain (not trade away) any benefits, any aspects of Self that have lead to Joy, to "just....living" within that state of Awe. For me it isn't so much "unlearning" as it is letting go of the masks and performances—one at a time—gradually allowing authentic Self to just BE.
(With thanks to The3rdSpace for their description of their process of liberation.)
Hi Kate, I'm so glad I was able to put words to an experience you've had. You are definitely not alone in untangling these threads in later life. I talk to a LOT of people in their 70s who are waking up to these realizations. I think sometimes the adaptations required for us to navigate life don't release their grip until we have the time and space to slow down a bit--often in retirement, once kids are grown and gone, daily demands are (hopefully) less. Anyhow, I'm glad things are opening up for you and you're able to drop the masks one by one. Thank you for being here, for sharing your thoughts and your story.
This was refreshing to read. Yes, I think there's a difference between "fawning" and this loss of self you talk about. The way I see it is as if the loss of self is broader it plays in pretty much all aspects of our lives and is shaped by society, culture, family. Fawning feels more localised for me. Thanks for sharing your experience and writing about it. It sure gives me prompts for thinking about my own experience as well. 🙂
Maitte! So lovely to see you here. This description of fawning as being a more localized behavior fits for me, too. I also think fawning is specifically about appeasement whereas the loss of self is a broader "shaping" -- part of which relates to appeasement, but as you mentioned it also has roots in the great web of social norms and expectations. There's a lot of nuance and gray area here, not really a clean delineation.
This was a really well-balanced Post of looking at your own identity shaping but also being conscious and respectful of others.
Thanks, I'm glad you enjoyed it. And I appreciate you reading.
This really resonated with me - I just wrote about "fawning" and to answer your question - "I don’t know if you can unlearn the watching, the masking, the adaptation" - I know you know - yes, yes we can - its a hell of a lot of work - and you lose yourself - or the self you thought you were - once again. But honestly, its liberating - the fear felt is just the nervous system saying hey, we don't do it like that - are you sure - and yes, yes we are. A brilliant article! Thank you.
Interesting. I guess fawning is a component of this, but I think it’s broader than simple appeasement. There’s the skill of watching to see which parts of yourself are welcome in a given space, the hiding of edges that are too sharp for a room, the cultural constructs that shape the way we—literally and metaphorically—walk through life. These are plastic, for sure, and can be changed. But do they ever disappear entirely? And would we want them to? That’s the question I’m sitting inside.
Thanks for your response. You’ve given me some more to think about.
This is so thought provoking! I felt like I was reading my life story. In three years, I will be 70. I have found that my senior citizen status has helped me to become who I really am without hiding or holding back. In a trade off with aches and pains, I have become me with no apologies. It was exhausting to lose myself for so many years. Sukie, you are an absolute jewel of a person. Thank you for your intelligent insights and for all you bring to the world.
Felt like you were reading my mail... much to chew on here. There's a central question here for me, something about being the truest, least self-conscious expression of me, while allowing blending/ fitting in to flow with visible/noticeable- moving from one to the other with ease... chewing...
Thank you for this post.
So glad you liked it and it gave you something to chew on. I like your central question, and it's the one I'm sitting with, too.
We are a lot alike. Made to accommodate. Surviving, people pleasing. My lot is having been born the second half of a set of twin boys, left handed, a little smaller than the other, etc, etc. Thought outside the box, when in the late 50s and early 60s the only thing that was important was the box. So I stayed inside my world. I ventured out when necessary. Went to school, aced IQ exams, was mediocre in school work (too much left brain stuff), but went on to college. Learned to make friends with dopers and thugs so I wouldn't get beaten up. Made it through the army as an Intel analyst then worked as an addictions counselor for 40 years. Became adjusted to structure to fit into society and worked hard on fitting myself in without losing myself. Lots of bumps along the way. Still the iconoclast. Still think I'm right. Still learning when to keep my mouth shut or to say please and thank you. Still helping the poor and afflicted along the way. My motto to get along with people who don't like me is "To know me is to love me."
Hi David. That sounds like quite an impactful experience, and to grow up in that family dynamic during a cultural time of great conformity--I imagine that was challenging. It sounds like you navigated life extremely well despite those circumstances, however. Thank you for the good work you do in the world. Your patients are lucky to have had your care.
Reading this was as if I were reading my own autobiography. Thank you, Sukie, for articulating this path so clearly.
I only recently began (in my mid-60s to 70s!) fully recognizing the masked me I'd always been vs the real Me I'd always felt within. The Performance. The Masks I wore most of the time. The external reasons for my perfectionism, my work to be a high achiever, the constant efforting to fit in while wanting/needing be fully authentic. It was only when I retired from work (ie from expectations and obligations) that I allowed myself to begin opening up, to enjoy that there's no longer anybody else who's "the boss of me". It's like breaking out of a lifelong cocoon to become the butterfly within. It's not easy at first, and then it becomes exponentially easier after the wings start to spread wide open.
So yes, I'd say "you can unlearn the watching, the masking, the adaptation" and what's more, you can retain (not trade away) any benefits, any aspects of Self that have lead to Joy, to "just....living" within that state of Awe. For me it isn't so much "unlearning" as it is letting go of the masks and performances—one at a time—gradually allowing authentic Self to just BE.
(With thanks to The3rdSpace for their description of their process of liberation.)
Hi Kate, I'm so glad I was able to put words to an experience you've had. You are definitely not alone in untangling these threads in later life. I talk to a LOT of people in their 70s who are waking up to these realizations. I think sometimes the adaptations required for us to navigate life don't release their grip until we have the time and space to slow down a bit--often in retirement, once kids are grown and gone, daily demands are (hopefully) less. Anyhow, I'm glad things are opening up for you and you're able to drop the masks one by one. Thank you for being here, for sharing your thoughts and your story.
As a perpetual 'new kid' and long-time only child, all that tracks. Thanks for your articulating so well and accessibly. : )
Thanks for reading. I’m glad it hit home.